September 29, 2009 – Sports, competition, and success

Disucssion Leaders:

M- Melissa Jones and Nick Reemtsen

O- Ashlee Sisson, Kelsey Woehneker, Elizabeth Pappas

Articles

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jun/28/bethany-hamilton-surfing

http://www.essentiallifeskills.net/successin.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxKvOSm5FcE&feature=related   O’Donnell

http://www.lancearmstrong.com/  O’Donnell

40 Comments

  • The provided media lacks cohesion, but does its job motivationally. The arctic swimming talk hardly relates to the prosthetic leg talk, unless one makes the obscure connection that success is art. Anticipating the conversation, I hope we talk about Lance Armstrong, because I am one of his biggest opponents. I cannot forgive a cheater, especially one whose public existence hinges completely on his unethically gained advantage.
    Having three little brothers connected me to the Posada talk especially. Being able to forgo the temptation of instant gratification translates even in college when distractions cause dunces to drop out as early as tomorrow.
    I define success as the sum of its part, entirely separate from any other skills. Winning is its own concept, apart from skill. These talks could go anywhere, I just hope I’m not alone in raging against unfair advantages.

  • Edmund and all- The base of the talk in O’Donnell on Tuesday is going to be based on the questions “What is success?” and “How is it achieved?”. We used the first two videos to show that success has different ways of being achieved. What we want to find out is what others think of success. The first two videos we chose were chosen due to their stories. Think about both stories thoroughly; it will help in class.

  • The videos at first thought felt random and disjointed, but they all have something to do with a subjective view of success and what it takes to be successful – in that regard I think they are all interesting and good choices. I think Posada’s talk on the ability to delay gratification is valid and that self discipline can be the most important variable in success.

    Mullins’ speech is a reflection on what it means to be disabled and what it means to be beautiful. I thought this would be a great speech for the disabilities topic day for class, but it works here as another example of success not being of one, singular definition. It is inspirational that though she is “disabled,” she could also be seen just as easily as being “super-abled.”

    Lewis Pugh’s speech has a big environmental message as well as one that echoes back Posada’s view on self-discipline. He showed having heart is huge in any competition (his was competition against nature, preconceptions and his own fear).

    The page “Success in Sports and Life” is a great way of saying what success is. Success is different for everyone, but it is about finding your potential and knowing that you went as far as you could go with a peaceful mind.

  • McClurken

    Though I had heard of the delayed gratification experiment before, the concept of teaching kids to delay gratification is an interesting one. I’m not sure that it can really be taught- I think a large part of whether a kid can do that is part of their intrinsic character. And the girl who took the inside of the marshmallow out to eat it and trick the scientists- I feel that she might actually be more successful (depending on how you define success) because she knows how to play the system. We all know people who get by, and at times do better than everyone else, because they find loopholes. But is that really success? How else can we measure success?

    Along with defining success, Aimee Mullins brought up questions of how prosthetics redefine not only sports and competition (for who is to decide what is a fair competition?) but also the nature of humanity. I thought that this was an interesting point, especially because it turns the age-old image of those with disabilities as less than human on its head, turning them into something more than human. So then how should we define what it means to be a human? I think that it can no longer be so dependent on biology. But it’s incredibly hard to even conceptualize humanity in any other terms. When we do try, we use physical terms as metaphors for the more esoteric. Her closing, using Shakespeare, I found particularly effective.

  • McClurken
    Who ever thought that a marshmellow could effect your life so much? The first movie was a little random, a marshmellow does not prove anything. I think that the second movie was very interesting because she shows how one can define success in terms of how they perceive it. I liked the second movie a lot because she turned her own disability in to something that she could make her own unique quality and be proud of it. I wish I could adjust my height, with five different height options. I like the theme from the readings and videos that I got out of it, which was to be yourself with what is given to you. And, aspire to have your own dreams. You can have dreams, and they can also be that of other people, but you must have your own reasons for them.

  • I disagree with Edmund because I can see how the three talks relate. They all discuss the idea of success, and each person’s view of success is different. I liked Aimee and Lewis’ talks, and I did not know what to think about Joaquim De Posada’s talk. I just do not think his view about success and marshmellows is clear enough. Perhaps if he had a longer talk, the message would have gone across easier.

    I really thought Aimee had a powerful and positive talk. I think she is proof that whatever challenge is thrown at you at life should be taken in an optimistic fashion. Instead of viewing herself as disabled, she viewed herself as fortunate because she got to choose how tall she wanted to be for the day. Despite her disability, she is still successful in the fashion industry. Her idea of success should be known to everybody because it shows that as long as you accept your challenges, you can be successful. No matter how challenging life is, you should still work on reaching your goals.

    This message also relates to Lewis Pugh’s talk. Though not as powerful as Aimee’s, I thought it had a good message. I liked how his video connected sports with an opinion. He swam for environmental reasons, and he overcame his obstacles with a few words of encouragement. I think another thing people need to be successful is support from the people they love, like Lewis. If you know you have the support of others, you will only strive higher to reach your goals.

    I also think it will be interesting to discuss Lance Armstrong. He has many supporters, as well as opponents. I think his story will bring up an interesting discussion in class. Although he has overcame many obstacles, many people still think he does not deserve everything he has won. Personally, I think it takes a lot of hard work on his part to get to where he is today, and he has an inspirational life story.

    –Stacey Peros

  • McClurken

    The marshmallow video was short but interesting. I never really thought that how we are as children could affect us later in life. It got me to thinking, if we act a certain way now in college will that follow us later in life? Do we act in similar ways now as we were as children? Or can we change?

    I really liked Amiee Mullins video. She used something personal to her to become successful. Amiee’s prosthetic legs look real and different ones have different purposes, running, etc. This helps a lot of people especially the realistic ones because some people that have prosthetic limbs are embarrassed by them. They are also helpful for athletes because just because you need a prosthetic doesn’t mean you have to stop or not do things.

  • I didn’t even notice Mullins had fake legs until she quoted the teacher saying “kids, don’t stare at her legs.” Although she never walked with real legs before having to use prosthetic ones, her accomplishments as an athlete are still impressive..maybe even more impressive than Lance Armstrong?

    The speech by Posada, although short, was still interesting and the on that I did the most background research on. Is the ability to delay gratification the most important factor for success? The experiment with the marshmallows was interesting but I don’t know if the statistics later in life can be fully trusted by decisions by four year old children because as we talked about in an earlier talk, the brain can be re-wired.

  • (McClurken)
    I really enjoyed all of these videos and all though they didn’t all flow well together they all used the concept of success. my favorite video was Lewis Pugh’s I love the fact that he included the actual video of him swimming. Plus he did the swim after being in excruciating pain after five minutes, doubting himself, and fearing for his life. I didn’t realise that the girls who made the prosthetic legs had fake legs until she pointed it out. Then I was like HOLY S**T! They looked so real.
    I was very familiar with Bethany Hamilton’s story and it is very inspiring but I don’t have too much to add to that. I really liked the other article about Coach Wooden. I think that his measure of success as the level of happiness of one’s life, is far better than society’s definition as wealth.
    Over all I enjoyed this weeks topic and can sense an intense disussion sparking tomorrow.

  • I can see how the videos kind of relate to success, but I just don’t like the videos at all. Having a marshmallow sit in front of a kid and see if they will eat it. Well if you would stick a monkey in front of a banana, I bet 1/3 monkeys would eat that banana. I really didn’t think the marshmallow effect was the best example to show how successful a kid could be.
    Then the second video I felt bad cause she is legless, I wouldn’t know what to do if I didn’t have legs. She turned out to be successful because she became a model of fake legs, so I guess she made worth wild for what she had or might I say she didn’t have.
    The third video, I do not understand what is so successful for him to swim in the North Pole. It was could be successful for him, which all that matters because swimming in the North Pole for 18minutes or so, doesn’t have a affect on me.
    Success to me can mean totally different for someone else. It just means people set their goals and standards at a different level than me.

  • ok, im with mike and he meant a banana in front of a monkey, anyways, i didnt see any competition or sports in the videos.
    swimming in the artic, not a sport. i see why he was sucessful in getting nations to see how the artic is hurting.
    The video about the marshmallows, i didnt like it was video for a small point about how kids with patience were more sucessful than kids without. I just feel like there was such a small point to be made…
    then i read the articles some what and i like the sport and competition in the first one and the sucess factor with sports in the second. I felt the readings were far better than the videos.
    for myself i feel more productive and sucessful when i am playing a sport in my life. Wehn im not playing a sport my grades go down and i am depressed. Thats because workingout makes more endorphens and makes me happy and playing a sport gives me better time management, cuz im so used to getting things done on time on the field that i carry that thought off the field too. i think that is how sports and competition create sucess.

    Tyler Stewart

  • Sorry this is 47 minutes late, but…

    I thought the above talks were fairly good, although I didn’t understand the cohesion between them. After reading Ashlee’s post on what the talk will be about, I think the main mindset is that if you want something badly enough, you will be able to achieve it. I define success as being able to conquer a feat that the individual is trying to overcome, be it to finish watching TED talks for class or curing cancer. Success is achieved through striving for what you want, although the actual success does not mean reaching your goal. A person may try to find a cure for cancer and even if (s)he does not, I think success is defined as the hours of hard work put into the project and attempting at creating a medicine to help further the cure.

    McClurken

  • The videos held a common thread in terms of presenting what success means to different people in their life situations and circumstances. These videos showed that each person possesses their own unique view of success and how they will go about achieving it in their own lives. One video showed an individual who has prosthetic legs and overcame adversity. I also hope we talk about Lance Armstrong too because he is an individual who against all odds after battling cancer won the tour de France. Any individual who has focus and self-discipline can achieve their own measure of success in life which can change as the go through life.

    I believe that success in life is about the process or the journey in one’s life and the satisfaction and meaningful happiness an individual gains from their accomplishments, not just the accomplishments themselves. It is up to the individual to set their own standard of success and then set his or her mind on achieving it. What I’m trying to say is that in order to succeed in life we must have goals, whether big or small and that these goals will help us find ourselves and our purpose in life.

  • *I really like the marshmallow video- however it makes me nervous however for the people who decide to test their kids and find out their kid eats the marshmallow- are they going to immediately come to the conclusion that their child is a loser and just not have high expectations for them? Then for certain those kids are going to not do well. Perhaps there is more to success than just a marshmallow and I wish he had given some hope to the marshmallow eating children families. I feel like just because your kid doesn’t understand at age 4 doesn’t mean those skills can’t be artificially taught to them- some of the kids who ate the marshmallow had good grades in college and I feel like that is because of how they were raised- regardless of marshmallow or not.
    * Those prosthetic legs are sooo pretty. I think there isn’t really that much to discuss in this video though- its just a reminder of no matter what ailments you have, no matter what hinders you from being like the rest of the world- you can take that and turn it into something beautiful and from that you can in turn be extremely successful. This video seemed to reiterate the idea I had with the first video, that even though you eat that marshmallow (I guess that can be synonymous to missing legs..) you can still be successful in the end. And depending on how you look at what you were delt, it can be such that you have more opportunity than the rest of society with normal body parts.
    * The Third video: let me tell you, I have never heard a more modest man speak in my entire life….:/ He really needs to shut up. I don’t really care what he says. And he cussed at me. 🙁 I don’t like him at all. Him and his sausage fingers can swim wherever they wants.
    *The first reading about Hamilton was inspiring, of course, and it goes along with the success motif that seems to be the prime focus for the discussion. I think that it takes ridiculous amounts of dedication to be attacked by a shark and then, only months later, be capable of getting back in the water. I haven’t even seen a shark in the ocean and I always keep an eye out when I go deep into the water- then I think I see something and freak out and swim back super fast- or have to be saved due to my freaking out making it impossible to swim back. This girl was ACTUALLY attacked by a shark and yet she continues to go surf in deep water, overcoming how hard it must be to stand up and balance with one arm. I really admire that.
    *I really disagree with coach wooden. I don’t really think that success is averaging a C or a D just because its the best you can do. You aren’t going to get into college with grades like that, nor can you find a decent, well paying job without said college education- but don’t worry, its the best you could do so, you are successful. That is ridiculous. And how can you not compare yourself to others? its what we do as humans.

  • “Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best that you are capable of becoming.”

    – John Wooden

    I think that this is the greatest bit of information that I can take away from anything presented here.

    There’s only so much we can do with ourselves, and if you know that you used every last bit of the power in your possession to become the “best” John Wooden refers to then that’s all there is. You are successful.

  • When I was watching the videos I didn’t really see what I was expecting when I heard the title, ” Sports, Competition, and Success.” I felt that the videos focused more on sucess than competition or sports. The Joachim Deposada was completely about, the Aimee Mullins touched on sports a little with the running prostetic legs, and I found that event though swimming in the North Pole was a great feat for Lewis Pugh, I thought the theme of that talk was more about the environment and how to appreciate it. But I thought the complete opposite about the readings as I saw the perseverance of Bethany Hamilton as she survived the shark attack and is now once of the top surfers in the world. My favorite piece that was set up for this theme is the article on John Wooden. I really like this article because I have had so many coaches that have tried to teach the same concepts that he had but backwards, and I was always curious as to why they would never follow one of the most successful coaches in all of sports history.

  • O’Donnell

    My first thought, as many others have pointed out, is that these videos are all rather different. My next thought is that this is definitely a good thing. Let us tackle the subject with diverse angles, yes?

    All the videos struck my interest, Pugh’s, in particular. Of course, we’ve all seen those crazy success stories of people doing daring things and making the possible seem possible.

    The way I see it, as overstated as this may be by all the sappy success stories, sports, competition, and success are 10% Ability, 90% Determination. As inexperienced in sports and stuff as I may be, I still stand by it.

    For the anime nerds out there reading this (I hope you’re existent), I’m going to reference Gurren Lagann. This is an anime about a kid who starts out in an underground village as a worker and becomes the hero of the anime and pierces the heavens. Simon and Kamina’s success was not made with their ability or logic. Their success was made through their determination of battling dauntlessly even when incredibly outmatched. Even in states where there is a 0% chance of success, they still end victorious. The binds of logic and odds are broken when faced with their determination. That’s basically where I got my whole standpoint.

  • O’Donnell

    I found the marshmallow thing very interesting. I don’t think giving a child a marshmallow was the best example. I do think that if someone were to conduct a different experiment giving people the choice of one thing or another, that would be more realistic than giving a child a marshmallow. Although i do understand the point he was trying to make.

    As for the second video, it was actually on my top ten. I think that success all depends on how you look at something. It’s something that cannot be judged, like happiness. Success isn’t something that you can put on a scale and measure.

    About the article on Bethany Hamilton (i know that wasn’t for O’Donnell but i decided to read it anyways) i think that she is a good example of how someone’s attitude can put things in a different perspective. Yes, i know that she did lose an arm, but that did not stop her from living her life the way she wanted to. I can’t imagine how hard it must’ve been to learn to live life a whole new way.

  • O’Donnell
    Though the movies may not relate together, they all relate to success in a different way. The first video about the marshmallows was an interesting experiment. The experiment shows how that a prediction can be made about how someone could be more successful in life if that kid did not eat the marshmallow then the kids who ate them right away. I thought the second video with Aimee Mullins was very inspirational. Her disability became an inspiration to many including fashion industry. I like when she says that the disabled can think of themselves as “architects of their own identities.” I agree with Leslie that success can not me measured and no one can judge someone else on the amount of success but only a person can determine his/her own success because everyone defines it differently.

  • O’Donnell
    After watching the videos i was a bit confused, they were not at all what I had expected. Each video conveyed a very personal success story. I found the last two videos to be inspiring and motivation. I thought it was a creative idea to focus on a very personal and broad definition of these. This will be great for the class discussion today. Hopefully everyone will bring something some interesting views to our talk.

  • fholzgrefe, ashlee is not your group leader…..

  • Like many have said before I also did not know what to expect from these videos. I found them inspiring and motivated. A couple of the talks are centered a lot by determination. I have had many baseball coaches tell me that the game is mostly mental and all matters on how it is approached. Most if not all successful athletes are driven by determination. They mentally prepare themselves for the tough battle ahead. The talks given are also driven by motivation. I’m very interested in what the reaction of the class will be, this could lead to a good discussion.

  • I thoroughly enjoyed these videos because the topic is something that I am very captivated by. I completely agree that self discipline is the most important characteristic in order to be successful. Though there are so many traits involved and necessary to be successful in whatever you do, without self discipline you will not be able to achieve anything great. Having the ability to delay satisfaction for later and greater satisfaction is scarcely found within people today. Everyone desires things and results so quickly because we are in a world where in many venues that is not only possible, but the norm. If individuals can grasp the fact that putting off temporary satisfaction in some cases will make the overall outcome better in the end, then they will have their eyes opened by the all amazing possibilities self discipline offers. I look forward to discussing this in class.

  • McClurken
    I think that today’s discussions were very thought provoking becacuse everybody has their own definition of success. And, you can either have high expectations for your self of you can ok expectations for yourself, and not exactly reach for the stars.
    If we do not set goals, then I personally feel that we can never be successful. We need to be able to strive for something that we think is going to be unachievable, and go far beyond that. I also think that in order to get both gratification and success, you need to be doing something that you love to do. So that way, you can successfully do what you love and hopefully get the satisfaction of doing it well.

  • O’Donnell

    I thought today’s discussion was the best so far. I thought the leaders are only becoming more involved as now they actually took our blog posts and called some people out on their blog posts. I thought that showed great care and responsibility of the leaders towards the assignment.

    The main point of discussion in the class was what we consider to be successful. Most of the classmates agreed that success does not necessarily mean winning and that each person should measure his or her own success. The discussion also made me realize another way the three videos are connected; all of them discuss obstacles that were overcome to reach success. At first, I just thought that the three videos discussed the different ways one can be successful, but now I realize they are about obstacles as well.

    We also discussed the loopholes to success. There were some disagreements about whether cheating can be considered success. While I personally believe another person to be unsuccessful by cheating, I still think that person can be successful in his or her own mind. We specifically got into this with the Lance Armstrong debate. Although there are rumors that he did use drugs to his advantage, I still believe that Lance Armstrong is an iconic figure for overcoming his cancer and being able to become the great athlete he is today.

    –Stacey Peros

  • O’Donnell:
    Before I deface Lance Armstrong, some thoughts on the rest of the discussion:
    I enjoyed discussing the measurement of success and was surprised how similar success and happiness are. Even the lottery example came up again. Some success, we decided results in bad events, which means successes are relative. The definition of success is attaining a goal, be it beneficial or detrimental to yourself or others.
    Lance the Pants: The problem with Lance Armstrong rests in his inability to clarify the drug happenings in his career. He pushes an image as a fighter, role-model, and champion, but refuses to address these issues like the stand-up guy America says he is. NPR reported his own friends swore under oath he said he used “growth hormone, cortisone, EPO, steroids and testosterone.” Would his own friends risk a felony, lying under oath to expose one of America’s heroes? I incorrectly stated in class that the EPO he tested positive for in 1999 (L’Equipe) were not banned. They were. The test they had in 1999 could not pick the substance up, so they froze the samples and tested them in 2005 with technology that exposed his drug use. His masseuse testified Armstrong asked her to dispose of used syringes and provide him makeup to cover track marks. These people know they will be challenged by a 250 million dollar plus charity, but they do it because they respect the sport and the truth.
    If there remains any doubt you can watch this interview where one brave reporter Paul Kimmage takes on Armstrong at a press conference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUAO7xmNKeA&feature=related
    Note how he throws cancer around like a weapon saying everyone should be forgiven, but he doesn’t have to forgive Kimmage because Armstrong battled through cancer. He also talks about his admiration for multiple other confirmed and banned dopers. The best conclusion comes from Greg LeMond, the first American winner of the Tour. He said “If [Armstrong’s] story is true, then it’s the greatest comeback in the history of sport, if it’s not, then it’s the greatest fraud.”
    LiveWrong

  • Today’s discussion everyone could give their own definition of success, which could be compared to other peoples definition. Having to do so we fed off of that to start up another conversation, which was interesting. Of course the usual happened, their was that one person that does not agree with anyone.

    Myself I think that “Satisfaction” and “Success” are completely same thing. Success to me can mean do the best you can on something, which then turns out to be satisfied. Because you are satisfied in all the effort that you took part in on that thing.

  • in responce to our discussion today i feel as though most of the class came to an agreement BESIDES ONE PERSON, whom i will not name. cough satan cough.
    Sucess and happiness arent sononamis, and sucess varys for each person and has different results.
    Some people are happy and feel sucess with A’s and some with C’s. Some with Janitorial work and some with being CEO’s.
    Sucess varys. We didnt talk about sports much or competition.

  • I thought that this discussion was actually really interesting, in that it brought up questions about how we define success. Do we define it by our own happiness or by our material wealth? I know that for myself, I base my own measure of success on whether I feel that I am living up to my potential and if I’m happy with my life, and I would do the same for people I know personally. But it certainly is easier to judge strangers based on a concrete concept such as money. It’s nearly impossible to know if someone else is living up to their own potential: for example, the little girl who ate the inside of the marshmallow is probably not achieving at her highest potential (if she’s putting that much thought into how to beat the system, she probably could keep herself from eating the marshmallow), but she probably will get ahead materially in life and thus be judged by most of society (as represented by certain individuals in our class) as successful.

  • After our discussion today I left with alot of thoughts and emotions mainly frustration with Megan’s thought process. But that’s beside the point. I felt that the discussion was very good, everyone had an opinion and a valid reason for that opinion. In my mind Chris best stated his point and supported it the best. After that discussion I have come to the conclusion that success is relative, its meaning has some of society’s deffinition, but mostly it has to do with how you feel about your life in the long run.

  • O’Donnell

    Following the discussion today in class I feel as though the talk went well. There were more people than usual involved and though we did get off track, several good points were mentioned. I really enjoyed the discussion about Lance Armstrong and whether he was a proper role model to look up to or not. I feel as though when these type of topics are brought up it opens up the discussion to the people who aren’t usually very talkative. If that’s what needs to be done in order to help incorporate others into the conversation then so be it. I will enjoy the conversation and the debate regardless.

  • I think our whole talk on success came back to the idea that success is a matter of opinion.

    Success isn’t necessarily winning, it’s just if you achieve the goal you had in mind. When talking about success, i do think that not achieving your goal, or failing, makes you appreciate becoming successful even more. Self discipline and determination go hand in hand. Without either one, someone cannot be successful.

    I think that success is determined by each person. Success is a matter of opinion and not necessarily a matter of fact. It goes along with the happiness thing where success cannot be measured on a scale. Someone’s outlook and attitude also determines whether they were successful or not. Each person is measured on success by what they’ve been through and where they could’ve been in life and where they are now because of it. If someone’s goal was to do something bad and they achieved that goal, they are successful in themselves.

    I think that the girl who ate just the inside of the marshmallow was actually smarter than the kids who ate the whole marshmallow. It makes you wonder how smart a 5 or 6 year old actually is.

  • Great, this is great. I’m going to try as hard as I can in all aspects of my life and I will be successful no matter how we look at it as a class.

    It’s going to take a lot of work, but I can be successful despite any unforeseen troubles.

    Do I care enough about success to pursue it to the lengths John Wooden describes? I’m not quite sure, I think so. I hope so.

  • Nick – I know that she was not my leader, I just figured that would be the direction we would go in, which we in fact did. We all view success differently, as we saw, and although there is immense gratification from getting paid well or receiving an A on a paper, I believe success is in the eye of the beholder and to me success is putting your effort into doing something and getting something out of it yourself. Success is a hard term to define, as the discussion pointed out, but if we each did not define it differently then we would all be striving for the same things in life, therefore making us boring drones.

  • I thought the topic yesterday was a little more off topic than usual and we only focused on success and not sports or competition. So for the 33 percent that we did cover it seemed that most people thought that success is setting a goal and accomplishing that goal, whether it be have a good job or lose to the LA lakers by 4.

    After the talk I’m still not sure success can be measured from a sociological standpoint, check that, success can probably be measured, but I don’t think PERSONAL success can be measured from a sociological standpoint and that you create success for yourself, just as you create happiness for yourself.

  • O’ Donnell

    I conclude with more of a focus on success than sports.

    Interesting. I have never really asked the question “What is success?”. I have just made assumptions and made an understanding of it through how others have waved that word around. Through the discussion, the definition we derived seems correct: you are successful if you accomplish your goals. Then when are other successful? Others are successful when they accomplish their goals.

    Yet there must be more to it, for what of when you call someone else successful without knowledge of their goals. That’s when we put a standard on success. Everyone might see it differently, but I would imagine most views going something like, “You are successful if you acquire x amount of money or luxuries, inspire y amount of lives, and sacrifice z amount of convenience for service to others.” No matter what your equation is, those are not the variables you should use.

    Then perhaps the only two factors that should be considered for determining success in life are experience and wisdom. Acquiring money, inspiring lives, and/or sacrificing convenience for others may come as byproducts of experience and wisdom, but they should not determine anything; they are secondary stats.

    However, to say that “You are successful when you acquire x amount of experience and y amount of wisdom,” is wrong, too. Even if there were quantitative ways of measuring experience and wisdom, the essence of success is not physical; it is internal. The word success has been used in different situations so much that people end up making a standard for it. The only standard should be the one you set for yourself. True success occurs when you feel satisfied in your attempts to accomplish your own goals, not goals that someone else sets for you.

  • i thought this talk focused more on success rather than sports, competition, AND success. that being said, with only focusing on 33 percent of the talks there were still very interesting points that were brought up and i feel that we all walked away with the sense of success can be measured by society but personal success can not b/c, for the most part, we said that personal success is setting a goal for yourself and accomplishing that goal, whether it be having a family and steady job or losing to the lakers by 4.

  • I agree with sdacey, we only focused on basically one topic, I was more interested in talking about the rest of the topic. With that said I found what we did talk lead to another good discussion and there was more involvement. What caught my interest the most was the disagreement concerning Lance Armstrong. Whether he cheated or not he will always be considered a success to the world after battling cancer. Honestly success is how each individual sees it. Other people can manipulate what you think is success.

  • I meant to say others can NOT manipulate your idea of success.

  • o donnell
    Our talk was definitely a heated debate as usual, but there were still many important points made. We mainly discussed the topic of success. From our discussion it became very clear that success is very hard to measure. Dphillip brought up some good points, like many people trow the word success around with out thinking of what it really means to be successful. I think if you achieve the goals you have set for yourself you are successful. While it is easy to judge success within your self it may be difficult to define success within others. If you see someone has done great things with their life you might consider them successful, but if they have not achieved what they intended to for their self should this still be considered a success? I think we must conclude that success is relative and should not be based on a set scale.
    As for Lance Armstrong, I was never even aware of the controversy surrounding him, apparently because all the major nations of the world are invested in protecting his image of a hero. But nonetheless this controversial topic made for a great discussion and its awesome to see people feel passionate about the topic and take a stand on their opinions.

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